That is the question that Francis Chan asked us at the youth specialties convention. But before you tune me out, let me give you a big of context for the question. Chan has been a very successful pastor in California in terms of building a mega church that started as a church plant. He shared with us that God had been dealing with him about what success was in the Kingdom of God and how he started to rethink his priorities in ministry.
Chan then went on to talk a little about discipleship and how Jesus did discipleship. He talked about how Jesus ministered differently to his disciples than to those in the crowds. He then talked about the parables and Chan seemed to say that Jesus spoke in them to confuse those that didn't really care about what Jesus had to say. I don't really know what I think about this but I see what he was trying to say. He pointed to the fact that the disciples would come up to Jesus after a parable and then ask what the meaning was, this according to Chan is what Jesus means by the good soil. (Matt 13:1-17) My problem with this is I don't know if I can say that Jesus essentially didn't care about those in the crowds at that time. I understand that Jesus was concerned with teaching the disciples as much as possible since they were going to carry on what Jesus started. But I'm a little uncomfortable in saying that Jesus didn't care about those in the crowd with whom he was teaching. Maybe I'm wrong about this and would be willing to discuss it the comments of this post. Or maybe I misunderstood what Chan was trying to say.
Anyways, Chan then began to talk about salt (Matt 5:13) in terms of "success" in ministry. He then did something that has stuck with me the past few weeks and I am still thinking about. He pulled out a little salt packet, opened it up and poured it on the top of his Bible and said that this represented those in his church who were truly living into the mission of God. These were the people that he wanted to pour his life into and see how they would begin to flavor the world around them. He then poured a big salt shaker that you would get at Denny's and dumped it on top of the smaller pile and said that this salt represented those that were just around for entertainment, prestige or any other reason that does not correspond with living into the mission of God. He said when we get caught up in our "success" that we begin to walk around asking the question, "how big is your pile?" I had to chuckle a little bit because not only have I been asked that question before, but in some cases I've asked that question.
If you do not know me, I must tell you that I am a co-youth pastor of a large youth ministry. I do not say this to brag, but to let you in on my current situation. We have a lot of kids that come through our doors, but Chan has me thinking about what kind of salt our students are. Are they living into the mission of God or are they there to be entertained or to be seen? More than anything this has me thinking about the discipleship process that we hope happens organically and I am wondering how intentional we should be about this. I am also thinking about how a student should enter into a discipleship process. Should they be invited? Should they take the initiative? Should it be forced upon them? What do you think?
I hope that I have done Chan justice in how I have remembered his message that evening. If not, please correct me as I do not want to misrepresent what he said. I will say that I totally admire the changes that he talked about that he and his church are making in an effort to live into the mission of God. I pray that they will continue to allow God to lead them as they shift the way in which they "do" church.
I believe the reason Chan said that Jesus wasn't interested in the crowd and said things specifically for the crowd to not understand him is because that is exactly what Jesus said he was doing. Jesus said, "I speak in parable so that in hearing they will not understand." I don't think Chan was reading into what jesus was saying, I think he was saying that is exactly what Jesus said.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea that he presented is that Jesus was skeptical when he saw a big crowd. We grow excited when we get a crowd but Jesus saw and sees through what they were there for. It hit me pretty hard. I liked it a lot.
I agree with you there. I'm still thinking over much of what he said.
ReplyDeleteLet me ask you this, in looking at what Jesus did and how Jesus did discipleship, do you think we are missing the point in youth ministry today? Or even in our churches? Should we strive to slim down our teaching to those interested? What then becomes our ministry to those that just follow the crowd? How does this change the way we teach in those settings? Talk about a paradigm shift.
I've always been intrigued by Jesus talking about the narrow way. Narrow suggests hard and it suggests a few. When there are lots of people on a path, they trample a new, wide path into existence. But Jesus insisted His way was the narrow way.
ReplyDeleteChan's comments are intriguing. Once again a place where, being saturated in our doctrine, we have internal conflict and confusion. Suggests an elect, doesn't it?
I think that's why I'm wrestling with it so much right now.
ReplyDeleteDoug and I had a long conversation today about how we do youth ministry especially in light of how much power we give our leaders. We've had a leader recently give some bad advice based on how they read the Bible and their perceived worldview of everything being black and white. I'm trying to process through if we are doing enough for the "good" salt that we are responsible for. Why does this have to be so hard?
Somehow I think the simple fact that you two wrestle to discover truth pleases our Lord. I went through several months this past year when I wanted to shoot myself over ministry practices that I promoted or performed in the past. During one day of self flagellation, my Dad said, "Wendy, you are only responsible for what the Lord has revealed to you." I took a deep breath and realized that the real question was not about what I had done, but had I sincerely and intentionally done it as unto the Lord? It's a process, right? (something our theology CAN support :). Thing is - sometimes after He reveals greater truth - we find ourselves so entrenched in a pattern or methodology (or limited orthodoxy) that we stand and wonder, "How the heck do I change this now?"
ReplyDeleteI think what Chan was saying is that in youth ministry (not all, but most), people are guilty of watering down what jesus was actually calling us to because we want the gospel to be wrapped up in a nice little package. Some are afraid that if you tell the truth of the gospel, the messyness (not sure aobut the spelling of this word or if it even is a word) of it and such, that teens will not want to be a part of the Kingdom. And I think that this is the point. We want the big numbers and if we talk about the gospel like jesus did, they might reject it. I honestly feel that more would accept than reject. This generation is looking for something that will change the world, not something that will make them feel better about themselves. Messyness is ok with them.
ReplyDeleteSo, I think maybe the actualy call is to not waterdown the gospel so that you can attract a crowd. But make sure that students know what they are getting into. If they know (or knew in the past) we might not have had an exodus of 18-30 year olds from the church. Obviously I have no research or grounds to actually back that statement up, so take it for what it is.
I can also see the election conversation coming up, but I can also see where what Chan was saying was everyone should have the opportunity to count the cost. Some will reject it, not because they are supposed to or because they are not part of the elect, but rather because they will not be willing to follow where Jesus is leading us.
Wendy, I think a great example of that was when I started grad school. As I began to learn about 'good' theology as opposed to the Sunday School pop theology that I picked up, I remember having so many moments when I repented of my error in thinking. Luckily, I now realize that studying, having conversations and being stretched is another way that God is revealed to us. Somehow flannelgraph Jesus, Paul and Moses were a part of that revelation.
ReplyDeleteJeremy, I agree about the messiness comment. (BTW it's spelled with an i) Wendy ran a great ministry at our church while she was on staff that was probably the most healthy ministry that our church did, and she can tell you that it was really messy. Most college and post-college adults can screw things up pretty big. But because Wendy was willing to be messy, they would come and share life together. I guess our biggest obstacle is how do we convince those that think the gospel should be dressed up and neat that messiness is acceptable?
I think your last statement also makes sense in light of the steps that Chan and his church were taking in order to be faithful to who/what God was leading them to be/do. Did you by chance get the audio of his talk?